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For Tuesday's class, I will cover the final chapters of the Iliad (Books XVIII-XXIV). I would like you to read this excellent (and short) summary of the Iliad and then Books 22,23 and/or 24. Concentrate on finding evidence to address the following prompt rather than trying to figure out the story line.Christians and Jews turn to the Bible as a source of comfort in difficult circumstances: "Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil." Does Homer offer any similar consolation? Are there key lines here showing how one can/should face loss, fear, death, and destruction?
Homer offers something similar to this Bible verse. I read Book 22. When I read it, I realized how similar Hector accepting his fate is to this verse. Hector basically says that if it is his time to go, it is his time to go and nothing will stop that, but if he is meant to live, he will live. The rational is, why fear something if it will happen when it is meant to happen. There’s no use spending your life worrying over something that will eventually happen in the future. So, when Athene deceives Hector into believing that he has backup in Deiphobos to, in the long run, kill Hector, he more or less say “oh well” it is bound to happen therefore it will happen. That is kind of the same mentality that the Bible gives. I can walk through life without worries because I know that God is in control and unless it is my time to go, I will be fine. In that sense the Iliad is much like the Bible, and, though that same mentality comes because of gods versus God, it is still there.
ReplyDeleteIn Book 19 on page 414 Homer writes of Thetis visiting Achilles.
ReplyDelete"My child, now, though we grieve for him, we must let this man lie
dead, in the way he first was killed through the gods' designing.
Accept rather from me the glorious arms of Hephaestus,
so splendid, and such as no man has ever worn on his shoulders."
To me this signifies that we should mourn and respect the dead, and that death is a part of how things work. What is also a part of how things work, as symbolized by Achilles' new armor, also the gods' work, is all the potential that remains in life after loss. So the retribution, the remembrance of the dead and the importance of death is only possible within life. In Achilles' case the armor also represents the potential for redemption - despite his rage costing so many Greek lives, including Patroclus', that same rage has potential to do good (even if it is misplaced or to a degree way further than is necessary.) Just as, though the gods' various actions have a knack for disaster, they also are sources of inspiration and hope.
Book 23 during the celebration and games for Patroklos. Line 723
ReplyDelete"All success shall be as Zeus gives it." This is a general line where in any circumstance where someone is uneasy, they should know if it were to be it will be. If Zeus does or does not allow it.
Book 24, when the gods are discussing if the Trojans should be able to retrieve Hectors body to properly mourn him. line 48.
"And yet he weeps for him, and sorrows for him, and then it is over, for the Destinies put in mortal men the heart of endurance" This is an explanation of how men were created to withstand the sorrow and pain of experiencing mortal life. They are tough creations that can endure a lot and keep moving on, even when dealing with deaths of loved ones.
Book 24 gives an interesting look at how Achilleus is still mourning the death of Patroklos. He struggles to sleep, and copes with Patroklos' death by dragging the dead body of Hekter around a tomb. Zeus, then sends Achilleus mother, Thetis, with a message to urge Achilleus to except ransom from the Achaians for the body of Hekter. In the process of delivering the message, Thetis sees her son in mourning and shows Achilleus care by sitting close to him, stroking him with her hand, and calling by name (Bk. 24 lines 126-127). IN her way of consoling Achilleus, she asks, "My child, how long will you go eating you heat out in sorrow and lamentation...?" (lines 128-129). Thetis gently reminds her son that he does not have long to live. She eventually urges Achilleus to give up the body of Hekter and "accept the ransom..." (line 137). She is doing what Zues wants, but she is also acting as a mother who wants to see her son move on and enjoy what little life he has left. It works, because Achilleus gives up the body. It also helps that Thetis is passing on a message from Zeus himself.
ReplyDelete-Jonathon Fargher
While reading book 22 I thought that Hektor had a similar feeling of his fate as the Bible quote from the prompt. Hektor believes that if he is supposed to die he will die and if he is supposed to live he will live because it is the Gods will. This part of the Iliad seemed more like a bible than any other part because of Hektor and his acceptance of the Gods will. "So it must long since have been pleasuring to Zeus, and Zeus' son who strikes from afar, this way; through before this they defended me gladly. But now death is upon me." This quote shows Hektor's willingness to accept death because of the Gods.
ReplyDeleteGauer
In book 23, the funeral of Patroclos is described. Homer uses this as an opportunity to not only tell a story but also give advice on coping with death. In the beginning of the book, Homer shows how Achilles is dealing with Patrolos' death on page 325:
ReplyDelete"Then he led the cavalcade three times round the body, all mourning and crying aloud; and Thetis lamented with them. The sands were drenched with their tears, their armour was drenched, so much their hearts longed for that mighty man."
Achilles and his men are not holding back how they feel, despite being big, tough, men who are the heroes of our story. They still wear their hearts on their sleeves and show exactly how they're really feeling. Perhaps Homer doesn't wants us to hide or internalize our emotions when we are faced with grief, instead we should be vulnerable enough to show how we feel.
In Book 24 Achilles is mourning for his comrade Patroclus. He didn’t eat until he was buried and slowly starts to eat. He starts holding competitions in honor of his death. In the Bible they had a tradition for mourning by wearing the worst clothes they had. I think it’s good to have a tradition to mourn a death of a loved one. A good modern-day example to relate to the Iliad’s funeral is New Orleans funeral parade.
ReplyDeleteMitchell Buller
This quote that Christians and Jews go to in times of trouble is reflected quite a bit through the thoughts, feelings, and actions of Achilles. First of all, I would think that most Christians are gonna think of this verse as hopefulness when they are in terrible times. Although they are walking through their worse situations in life, they still have God to look to for help. This attitude is reflected in Achilles as he is mourning the death of basically his best friend. He has this thought that whatever happens is going to happen, and there is nothing that he can really do so you better live life freely. These thoughts are reflected in the Christian faith because they believe that the best days are yet to come, but they still need to make a difference in this world.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, although this quote doesn't show it perfectly, I would say that Achilles mourning is a connection with the Christian and Jewish faith. Obviously dragging Hector's body around the city 3-4 times isn't the greatest way to mourn, but it is still understandable. I think the part that Achilles is forgetting is that Patroclus is in a better place.
I agree with Clayton's findings as well, because Achilles reflects this verse almost perfectly. The exception is with that little situation with Hector of Troy, but we don't have to go there. Achilles mourning the loss of his friend and moves on is a better example because it does reflect the Jewish and Christian attitudes that death is inevitable, but it's what you, the individual, can do in life. Hector reflected this attitude too, but he was killed and his body paraded throughout the city and he only bought the Trojan's time. Whereas Achilles actually did some damage to the Trojan defenses before he died and it paved the way for Ulysses's grand scheme to take troy for good, (the Odyssey). this reflects the attitues because the greeks fought and died for their values much like Christians did under the Roman persecutions.
ReplyDeleteIn book 22 I noticed a showing of how someone deals with death. That person was Hektor. He went into his fight with Achilles fully knowing that one of them was going to die in that fight, obviously one of them might mean himself. He seemed ok with that, almost like it was supposed to happen, which made him look at the face of death which would be Achilles and went down knowing that it could be him and that would be alright.
ReplyDelete-Jonathon Kremer
Books 23 and 24 throw out situations for those faced with death and those mourning the lost, and both show possible ways to cope with those situations with dignity and grace.
ReplyDeleteIn book 23, Hector goes to fight with Achilles, and while he isn't 100% sure of his own demise, he's well aware that death is inevitable for one of them no matter what, and he does what he can to make peace with that so that, when the time arises, he has no ill will to spend as he meets his maker.
In Book 24, as Achilles drags around the body of Hector, his mother (under the order of Zeus) talks to her son about stopping. However, she also comforts him, consoles him on the loss of Patroclus. She reminds him that while it is fair and decent to mourn for those lost, that one should not waste the rest of their life missing the dead.
A poor reason that the Iliad is like a bible is in book II they create a sort of way to worship their god of war via the collection of bronze clad men. I don’t know why, but this honestly reminds me of when people would gather large amounts of material goods to create their false gods. It seems like the people had to be gathered before their god of war would even consider helping them. It feels as if they really only wanted something to rally behind, and didn’t need these false statues/gods in order to succeed. The strength came from the group thinking they had an outside force assisting them.
ReplyDeleteAbbigail Patton