Homer's works were in some ways the closest thing the Greeks had to a Bible. If one wanted authoritative teaching about the gods and about their dealings with mankind, one turned to Homer. Passages culled from the Iliad and the Odyssey served as "proof texts" for any point one might try to make. Likewise, Homer's writings were also the starting point for later "inspired" writers--the poets and playwrights of ancient Greece. But Homer's works are a very strange sort of Bible, and it's not always easy to say exactly what his religious views were.Please read the Iliad study questions on the syllabus, and then as much of you can of Books I-VI. Cite here a line or incident that shows how the Iliad is like a Bible or how it makes a very strange "Bible."
This is the first time I've used the Lattimore translation. I like it, but I'm finding it slower going than some translations. I prefer quality on your part to quantity, so if you only get through Books I and II, that's ok. The introduction is great, and you'll get from it a bit more about Schliemann, Evans, and Ventris.
Brek-ek-ek-ek-coax-coax.
Right from the start you can see the gods in the Iliad are far from the omniscient, omnipotent gods of our monotheistic religions today. They are quarrelsome and dramatic. They remind me of those overly dramatic teenager shows like Dawson's Creek and Degrassi. They're much less serious than the humans are, who are facing actual death and obstacles and tragedy, while the gods are sort of just there as impetus to speed things up and cause problems. They're petty. They seem more human than the humans do I guess. It'd be at least as easy to quote as a Christian or Jewish text would be, given that there are opposing gods so you get a quote from either side of an argument on most situations.
ReplyDeleteThe first time we see the gods doing anything it immediately shifts the story to them, and the humans to just dealing with the gods' back and forth. Appollo helps the Trojans and Athena helps the Greeks, and every time any god does something another god is there to do something else. And when it doesn't go to plan, like when Ares is wounded, the gods go to other gods to complain and whine and are, just as in Dawson's Creek or Gilmore Girls or whatever, very dramatic teenagers.
This is probably the most accurate description I've ever read of the Greek gods. Nice.
DeleteYes...I agree with Kassy. Nice summery of the gods and good contrasts with the humans of the story.
DeleteI think that Homers Iliad is similar to the Bible because of the lessons it tries to teach, Obviously these lessons are taught in very different ways, Homers lessons being super dramatized and not always the best example but they are still simples lessons or teachings just like the Bible. These teachings aren’t the same, Homer might not have had the same beliefs as the Christian bible but he’s still able to get across his ideas of how humans should behave.
ReplyDeleteSorry I thought I was signed in, Lindsey Landenberger
DeleteThe one thing that keeps sticking in my mind while I think over what I've read is Iris. Iris, for some reason or another, every time she brings a message to anyone, reminds me of the angels in the Bible. Angels were the ones who brought the message of Jesus' birth to the shepherds and brought messages to Joseph about Mary's pregnancy. Iris bringing messages to people reminds me of angels bringing messages to all those that I listed above and more. The thing I find interesting is, when a person does a quick search on Iris, one finds that she is usually depicted with wings which is the stereotypical way we envision angels. This little factoid makes me think of her even more as the Greek version of an angel messenger. The big difference between God's angels and Iris is that Iris is a god (or at least a demigod) herself, but she is one of the underling gods whereas God's angels are more of willing servants and messengers of one God. It seems as though the less prominent gods of Olympus tend to be used as errand boys for "real" gods like Zeus...especially female gods. which seems to carry over to the human world where women are forced to be prizes of war, objects, rather than someone to actually be appreciated by their husbands. It's kind of a use and abuse situation for women and they're expected to just take it and deal with it. Regardless, Iris is like an angel messenger of sorts. It makes me wonder, though, how the daughter of a sea god and a sea nymph could somehow end up with wings rather than fins.
ReplyDeleteLove the Iris/angel comparisons. Never really thought about this.
DeleteOne line in particular that caught my eye in Homer's The Iliad was, "...do not take your sword in your hand, keep clear of fighting" (Homer line 210). This line to me, and many others in the Iliad, teaches a lesson. The Bible is known for all the lessons it teaches us and this is how I see the two books being similar to one another. They may not be the same lessons and how they are being portrayed are different but overall they are teaching lessons to the people that are reading them.
ReplyDeleteGood point. Here, and in many places, Iliad lines can and were used like Bible verses. Good advice, not necessarily in context.
DeleteIn the Iliad, Homer described the gods to be placed in certain categories such as war, love, and wisdom, but the gods did have flaws to them. A good example is Ares the God of War who loves the God of Love Aphrodite, who is a sleaze, but also has anger issues. Unlike Homers Iliad the Bible only has one God who dose not use his followers to fight pointless battles with Satan. They do share some characteristics from the Greek Gods such as wisdom, love, and forgiveness. The Greek gods were kind of mascots for the people. If the seas were rough the fisherman would pray to Poseidon and try to calm him down. I’m sure some of the fisherman cursed at him but that would usually cause them to be lost at sea. The Greek gods remind me of the European royalty during World War One, because most of them related and had fought against each other. I wonder what the family reunions were like in both eras.
ReplyDeleteThis is by Mitch Buller
DeleteGood comparison to European royalty!
DeleteIn book 1 of the Illiad, Achilles is upset because of a conflict involving Agamemnon, Apollo, and two maidens, Chryseis and Briseis. After conquering a Trojan town, Agamemnon takes Chryseis as his prize and Achilles takes Briseis as his. Chryseis' father prays to Apollo to free his daughter, and a plague is sent upon Agagmemnon and Achilles' camp. Achilles tries to figure out the cause of the plague, and when it is revealed to be caused by Apollo, Agamemnon becomes angry and will then only return Chryseis if Achilles does the same with Briseis. After this, Achilles also becomes enraged and threatens to withdraw from battle.
ReplyDeleteSo what do you think? Is this episode similar to Bible stories or substantially different?
DeletePage 80 - line 194, Athene decended from the sky. For Hera the goddess of the white arms sent her, who loved both men equally in her heart and cared for them. This is a lot like angels that come down to protect us that have love for all men, good or evil intentions.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Page 95 - section 115. Such is the way it will be pleasing to Zeus, who is too strong, who before now has broken the crests of man cities and will break them again, since his power is beyond all others. This shows how almighty and powerful the father of gods was. Just like our God almighty, he has the power to destroy and start again with destruction and creation.
Good comparisons, but note also how even Zeus is much more limited than the the Hebrew God.
DeleteThe Iliad introduces all these god and goddesses in a way that is very unique. They have a god for every event possible it seems. Okay, maybe not every event, but there is a god for war, anger, ect. It is similar to the bible in a way as there is one master god overlooking all the people. It is different as there is many other gods in the Iliad. With the bible there are apostles and others that help spread the word of the lord just not that powerful. Right away there is quite a bit of conflict between the gods. There are lessons that are being taught throughout relating to the bible in a way as well.
ReplyDeleteWe will talk later about the radical difference between monotheism and polytheism when it comes to the struggle of good and evil.
DeleteEveryone needs something to believe in. Throughout my very few years of studying history this is something I have quickly picked up on. People and life is anarchy with out it. In ancient Greece, this was believing in the Gods. Now, I have found many similarities within Christianity and the Greece Gods. However, I have also found many differences. I think that the concepts are the same. In the Greek writings they have many Gods for all different things. Love, crops, war, sky, sea, and the list goes on. Christianity and the bible has one God, God of everything. You could argue Satan and Haiti could be the same. The teachings and the messages are very similar, and I really do think that things like the Iliad was a Bible for these ancient people.
ReplyDelete-Tabitha Sonne
What similarity seems to you most important?
ReplyDeleteI also have found some similarities between the Iliad and the christian bible. In my nearly 16 years of experience studying ancient history, I know that most (if not all) ancient civilizations needed some sort of belief system to help maintain order. the Egyptians needed it, the Mesopotamians needed it, and the Mycenaean culture needed it too. some of the Greek gods bear some resemblance to the christian god. not to mention the teachings and messages seem to resemble each other upon closer inspection of both texts and i too think that this could be an early bible for the ancient Greeks.
ReplyDeleteReading the Iliad of Homer has been very interesting. I do see some similarities to the Bible. In particular the prayers, albeit poetic ones, offered up to the gods. When I first began to read, the depiction of Agamemnon made think that prayer was the last thing that he might do, but then as I read on Agamemnon recites his own prayer in the company of others. I've always felt as though prayer a way of onw saying I need help. Agamemnon didn't strike me as a person who needed help from my initial readings of the Iliad.
ReplyDelete-Jonathon Fargher
The Iliad reminds of a bible because it is written in verses and can help give moral guidelines through its readings. Reading about Achilles talking about his brief, bitter life reminded me of the book of Job, because both knew they were going to suffer but they still loved their God(s)
ReplyDeleteGauer
The main similarities I see between the Iliad and the bible are the way the human characters are written and the messages that are conveyed throughout, where as the main difference lies in its view of Gods.
ReplyDeleteIn both the bible and Iliad, the human characters represent certain traits that most people have, and are not put out of their way to be three dimensional figures. This simplicity in the characters also serves to display the morals we're meant to learn. Whereas Adam and Eve can convey the dangers of curiosity, Achilles shows the dangers of letting wrath get the better of you.
The difference of the ways Gods are portrayed is initially baffling. Those used to the ever omnipresent God might be struck by just how immature and reckless the Gods of Greece are, and just how out of tune the whole system is as they all squabble over the lives of mortal men like they're playing the world's most chaotic game of chess.